Folks In view of our current interest in TNS I have chosen this RTP for our next appreciation discussion. With the kind courtsey of Badri we have the RTP and the links are http://rapidshare.de/files/7982129/08a-malahari-alapana_tanam.mp3 http://rapidshare.de/files/7982571/09b-pallavi_ragamalika_tani_avartanam.mp3 The accompanists are Shri SD Sridhar (violin) and Shri CS Murugabhoopathy (mridangam)(brother of TNS's Guru !)(who is on Moresing?). The year of the concert is to be ascertained. Our Laya experts will be very pleased since a full tani is available here! I shall post my layman's appreciation by Sunday since I have to hear carefully at least three times. If you are in a hurry, hold your thoughts till then (in case I make a laughing stock of myself ;-). In the mean time please post information here relating to Malahari Raga which will help our fellow rasikas. For example a meaningful discussion of malahari vs kannadabangala will be educational. Also if you please, u/l choice renderings in Malahari which will enhance our appreciation of Malahari. Also anecdotes and historical details relating to malahari (why Purandara chose it etc.,) will be entertaining. I want to share an entirely different anecdote which reflects the 'delicate' prowess (yes indeed it is an oxymoron) of TNS in handling this raga. In the famous Novel 'The Talisman' of Sir Walter Scott there is an episode of the encounter of Saladin with King Richard. Saladin points to a rock and comments on its firmness when Richard promptly lifts up his sword to smash the rock into two pieces as a demonstartion of his physical prowess. A smiling Saladin throws a flimsy silk scarf and challenges Richard to sever it into two pieces. As the perplexed Richard helplessly stands by Saladin lifts up his tiny sabre and flings the scarf over it and right in midair the tiny razor-sharp sabre neatly severs that gossamer-thin-scarf into two halves. The story reminds me of Avvayaar's saying: neTTiruppu kOlukku nekkuviDaa paaRai pashumaraththin vErukku nekku viDuM Any number of great veterans can handle major ragas like thOdi, bhairavi, kalyaaNi etc., but it takes one with depth of knowledge and finess to handle a minor raga like (not a ghana raga) Malahari in an RTP. We will wait and see how TNS does... Replies Posted vasanthakokilam Ip Address 67.167.117.2 Posted on 23/11/05 12:19:38 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I just finished listening to it once and I am going to do it a few times, not just because I want to participate in this analysis session but it is just so enjoyable to listen to. I will wait for CML's analysis. If RTP represents the ultimate, TNS had playfully achieved one thing with this, he had linked up the "beginnings" and the "mature" in a nice way. The familiarity of melody throughout the Pallavi should sustain interest to anyone who has learnt CM even for a few months or who has been around anyone who had learnt CM. vijay Ip Address 59.92.32.191 Posted on 23/11/05 12:29:47 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Same here VK - listening to it, one feels that it is musicians, rather than ragas, who "do not have scope"!! Vijay cmlover Ip Address 70.25.215.223 Posted on 26/11/05 12:55:13 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Malahari is the first raagam introduced to the CM beginner. It is an ancient ( referred to in caturdandiprakaashika) ouDava ShaaDava raga: ArO S R M P D S' Ava S' D P M G R S The raaga is introduced traditionally through the piLLari gItam (wrongly called piLLayAr gItam) of sage purandara daasa 'laMbOdara' with the immortal phrase S R M, G R S R G R S, etched in our memory. The raaga does not provide scope for elaboration. Only MD composed 'pancamaatangamukha gaNapati..' which summarises all the prayOgas in the raga. The aMsha swara is dhaivatam and the jIva swaras are M P D. Accordingly it takes a master musician to adapt it for an RTP elaboration. Since it is not part of a ghana raagam taanam singing requires finess. Now let us plunge into TNS exposition of Malahari. Raaga Alapana and TaanaM TNS starts SRMPD,(MPD) right away displaying the arOhaNam and halting at the amsa swaram displaying the jiva swarms, showing undoubtedly the bhaava of malahari (at 0:32 you hear CSM tuning his mridangam, just announcing he is ready providing the reassurance) as TNS drones the panchamam to align perfectly with the shruti (!). The first few minutes are pure exploration of the pUrvaanga as well as shruti alignment (critcs watch mim !), occasionally testing the gamakam on gaandhaaram as well as holding steady the madhyamam. Around 3:00 he is getting ready for the uttaraanga again holding the dhaivata with the charcteristic gamaka. Watch his long tarashadjam (at 4:20) elegantly covering tha avarohana by 4:30 (again note his perfect shruti alignment at the upper octave). His sortie to tara panchamam effortlessly (4:50)and the murchana to aadhaara shadjam and the delightful akaarams after 5:00 (with a nasty recording break at (6:09 ;-), his voice yielding like taffy and the peak of ecstasy (7:05), the delightful gaandharam at (7:14). He traverses the whole gamut taara to madhyama (there is not much in mantra for malahari!) till 9:30 when he does the durita akaaram (I call it the characteristic power play of TNS (requiring tremendous breath control!) to finish (11:20) with an exploding applause from the audience. In my view TNS has completely explored everything possible in this minor raga (which cannot be elaborated more than 10 minutes). He has shown us all the familiar phrases of purandara and MD sprinkled with imaginative sancaarams (e.g his electrifying mUrchanas). I may suggest that this elaboration be taught to all beginning students of CM ( I am following up on that erudite discussion going in Raga Talk by Narayan Rangaraj). Except that students will take considerable practice to reproduce his durita kaala akaaram (but believe me youngsters are quite capable). Here is also a model for shruti alignment. Here is an excellent example of total voice training in CM! As sridhar continues we suddenly find a decline in volume (recording artefact?) but definitely a shruti misalignment. Sridhar is quite insipid trying out some standard phrases as he finishes by 15:00). Sridhar's elaboration is a foil for the magnificent aalaapana by TNS showing his mastery of the structure of the raga rather than just the phrases. With high expectaions we start listening to the taanam (15:10). RSRSRMG not particularly characteristic of malahari. Initially he cleverly avoids 'naM' to exclude any trace of nishadam. Also uses the akaaram asaivu deftly with 'thaa' to show SR since the rishabham is too close to shadjam. Also DS' which is close to PS' gives him the harmonic boost! He clearly shows the raga bhava (15:45 to 15:50). By 16:40 he has finished with all that can be done with this raga. As he leaves it to sridhar to do his stuff we can see how much the violinist struggles to get the crisp notes (I wish it was LGJ/TNK here !). Sridhar practically does an aalaapana instead of taanam! As TNS resumes at 17:15 he uses akaaram and clever use of PMPDS DPMPDS to hang on to malahari phrases which sridhar catches on to do a good job! This time as he leaves to sridhar 18:50 who does a lovely job based on the lesson given by TNS (believe me TNS is a great teacher (since he is also an outstanding vaiNika!). At 19:20 as TNS resumes I was wondering what else? TNS colourfully plays on the akaaramas and anuswarams (occasionally sounding like the aalaapana but not quite since he does not violate the rhythm) to a brilliant termination ( and a deserving applause from the audience). This final segment though brief is worth teaching to beginning students since it demonstrates voice control (with a primitive rhythm) but perfect alignment with shruti. If I score 10/10 for the performance of TNS I doubt there will be any dissent. Remember Malahari is not a rakti raaga nor a ghana raaga. It is simple and easy on the tongue for the beginner. I appreciate TNS for the technically perfect lesson ( and on shruti control) and showing that taanam can be performed on the minor raagas which can be useful for a beginner to learn the proper use of harmonics and built-in rhythm. I am posting this from a borrowed machine and I do not know when my computer will recover. I will certainly post my analysis of the pallavi (which is equally exciting). I may have no comments on the tani since I am still on LKG in that area;-) But do not wait for me but add your comments. Also take me to the cleaners if I have erred! (sriram we shall take up your laya piece once we are finished with this discussion! One at a time as you will understand! Please pitch-in with your comments.) Cheers cmlover Ip Address 70.25.215.223 Posted on 26/11/05 23:40:44 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Forgot to add at the beginning Malaharis the janya of MayamaaLavagowLai, the 15th melakartha. vasanthakokilam Ip Address 67.167.117.2 Posted on 27/11/05 01:13:08 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The raaga is introduced traditionally through the piLLari gItam (wrongly called piLLayAr gItam) I was also told that it is known as 'piLLari gItam' but then someone corrected it as piLlayAr gItam. What does 'piLLari GItam' mean? vishnuramprasad Ip Address 203.101.47.109 Posted on 27/11/05 01:44:52 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Eloboration of Malahari Raga by TNS is a lesson to all upcoming artistes. One would appreciate and wonder with awe, as he deals with such a minor raga which has 2 elephants close it namely Mayamalavagowla and Saveri. Did any phrase in his avarohana prayogams...(Sa.. dha.. paa.. maa..ga.. ri...) revealed Saveri or MMG? If we try to sing Malahari, we would come to know how difficult is get devoid of Saveri and MMG. The gaandharam downwards should be used as alpaprayogam like how it is handled in Aarabhi. And TNS excels in beautifully producing the complete lakshanam of Malahari without confusing the audiences. For Janaranjakam aspect, he reproduces the gitams of Mahatmas Purandaradasar and Dikshithar during the swara excersices. The Pallavi is simple in Thisragathi with nice scope of Anuloma, Prathiloma and Nadai variations (especially the word "amara vinutha) The Thani Avarthanam by Veteran CSM (who must have been in his early eighties during the concert) with short nadai variation phrases and short korvais had sparks of his peak days. Sadly advanced age did not permit this great Vidwan to use his speciality "solkattus" and "Ghumkis". CSM was one Vidwan (probably the only one) who had the capability to play both like a right hander and a left hander with equal ease. Such was his dexterity. Above all, the beautiful Chaapu, meetu and perfectly tuned Naadam of his Mridangam are unique and inimitable and it was intact till his last concert! Some years back TNS sang a pallavi in "Neelaambari" at Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan hall. Wondering if somebody has the recording of the same. Everything in CM is possible for this man!!! cmlover Ip Address 70.25.215.223 Posted on 27/11/05 09:21:32 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bravo vishnu That was a capsule summary of our CM greats and why they are great! You have captured all the fine points in a nutshell. I noticed that even in the ragamalika TNS never strayed in the direction of MMG or her other famous chldren. His kalyani, mohanam,khamas(TNS labelled) etc show how to bring the ragabhava in 30 seconds. I am particularly interested in learning more about laya and your summary has whetted my appetite. Now I hope our laya experts will pitch in with timelines so that i can learn and enjoy this masterpiece! ajsriram Ip Address 203.101.45.4 Posted on 27/11/05 23:57:07 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Taalam : Aadi Tisra Gathi Eduppu : After 4 Mathrais From Samam 19.20 : Warming up for the Kanakku with “Chatusram in Thisram” 19:36, Starts with the simple korappu in aadi Tisra Gathi. , @ 20:13: Starts reducing the Same The brilliance started on 20:34, the first two beats are falling in Sankeernam (18 Mathrais) and the rest two in thisram. After 3 matrais from Samam there comes Three 5’s (thathikitatom) then 12 (4*3), You can find the combination of 15 being sang like 5,5,5 & 3,3,4,5 and 3*5 and even 15 (1 * 15), and 5 being splitted as (3+2 * 3) The Crisp, Short , Simple (But to my knowledge the Formation is WRONG) korvai is chosen at 21:37. I have never heard these Kind of korvais in his concert in the last 10-15 years, might be this is one off korvai that he might have stopped singing it (will try to find from him). The korvai is sang in 2 Kaalams and 2 Nadais. First time : Thisram Slow Temp (Keezh Kaalam) Second time : Chatursram Madhyama Kaalam Third time : Thisram Fast Temp (mael Kaalam) Korvais Total Ennikkai (Count) = 80 Mathrais Slow Temp = 80 Chatursram = 40 Thisram Fast = 40 Total comes to 160 He is not starting the Korvai from Samam, He starts that after 4 Mathrais from Ring finger(after 16 mathrais), . The first 80 will come to SAMAM, since TisraNadai ( (8 * 6)*2 = 96) leave out 16 mathrais as he is starting after 16 Mathrais, (rest in hand is 80) and It falls on Samam, @ 21:48, you have to switch from Thisra Gathi to Chatusra Gathi,now the Korvai Starts from samam and Ends in Ring finger (Since 10 *4 =40), Again Switch back to thisra gathi on 21:56, 40 Mathrais from Ring finger In thisra gathi will lead you to the Pallavi Starting Point. Now coming to Why the Korvai is Wrong: Tha. Thee. Thakathina Thaam (thaam is 2 karvai) Comes to 12 Thee. Thakathina Thaam (thaam is 2 karvai) comes to 8 Thakathina Thangu (thangu is 3 Karvai) comes to 7 Thathikitathom Thathikitathom Thathikitathom Comes to 15 So 12 + 8 + 7 = 35 + 15 = 40 If you see the First part of korvai (poorvangam), there is no symmetry First 12 then 8 and then 7, either 7 should be (4 or 6) but should not be 7 at any case. Request to all TNS Fans/Students: I am not challenging the VIDWAT of TNS, he is great and everyone knows it. To my knowledge and to my learning these kind of korvais are wrong. I will clarify with TNS himself in a few days time. Regarding Thani : This is the First concert that I have listened with CSM on mridangam. I assume that CSM shld be around 80-85 yrs of age, and could’nt play things that comes to his mind. He started many things, but couldn’t complete that due age factor. Some of the things that he started are 1. Playing Sankeernam , trying a koravai, but notable to complete. 2. Starting off with a beautiful Chatusram in thisram gathi, again not able to complete. 3. Regarding Mohra-korvai, I have to listen a few more times to understand what he is trying. Regards Sriram J. Iyer vijay Ip Address 10.31.106.6 Posted on 28/11/05 02:18:09 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I must have spent about twice as long on this one as on the others and I’ve figured about a tenth as much! This is clearly the TNS of a while ago but the voice, while still fairly malleable, is not quite at its zenith. Even so, it is enough to pack the rendition with TNS’ characteristic forcefulness. TNS starts off slowly at 0.15 after a brief hint of the alaapana with SRMPD~. This is pretty much the same, notation-wise as Saveri but, as Vishnu points out, is there even a trace of Saveri here, or anywhere else in the alaapana? None that I could notice. Saveri, as most of you would know is different from this raga “notation-wise” only insofar as there is a Nishadam in the descent. No wonder this raga is considered a minor one – the slightest slip would land you in trouble! It perhaps takes some caliber, therefore, to not only attempt a 10 minute raga essay but achieve it as far as I could make out, without 1) compromising the identity of the raga and 2) losing sight of aesthetic sensibilities. How does he achieve it – to me the answer lies in the way the rishabham and dhaivatham are handled – extremely sharp and usually sung flat on the ascent. Further, there is constant refrain of SRMGRSRGRS to take us back, as VK says, to the foundation stone of carnatic music. Note that this is only my interpretation – I have no clue about the raga lakshana and it is a long time since I heard anything in Malahari! Surprisingly, there is not much that suggest the usage of S’D~P on the descent – one would have though this would serve to highlight the difference from Saveri! Would this perhaps have yielded shades of Revagupthi? Proceedings start off leisurely with slow phrases between adhara shadjam and panchamam with the brief descent into madhra sthayi. Faster phrases start around 1.25 still in the lower half of the middle octave. Note the gamaka laden phrases around 2.10 SRMGPM-DPMG-PMGR-MGRS I think. DPMP and RMPD-MP are some common refrains around here –there seem to be frequent rests on the Dhaivatham. Tara Shadjam is touched at 3.48 with PMPDR’S’. There is a prolonged halt on "Ri" at 4.55 and again a few minutes later – like with the Dhaivatham, a frequent feature in this alaapana. Somewhat trite phrases on the lines of DDS’-DDS’-PDS” can be heard around 5.20 after which there is a short break in the recording. Another interruption butts in at about 6.15 after which there are some typical TNS closed-mouth bhava-laden phrases until the resolution with the shadjam at about 7.05 – BLISS, as CML points out! Fireworks in the tara sthayi start happening round about now. Even though this is not his best, it is fairly impressive stuff. The quicksilver sancharas around 9.30 are just breathtaking – this continues until 10.10. The effect is created not only by the speed of the phrases but also the fact that they are somehow still gamaka laden, even at that breakneck speed. TNS! The alaapans winds up at the adhara shadjam at about 11.20. Violin alaapana is a short one of about 3.30 minutes starting on DPM~ at about 11.34. There is a concentration of sancharas aroud MPD and SRGRS for a good part of the alaapna between 12.15 to 13.25. Unlike the vocalist, the violinist is a little more partial to the S’DP phrase I had mentioned earlier. At 13.38 are some pleasant sancharas – D,, S’D-P,,DP-M,,PM. Overall, the violin is drowned by the tamboora and I agree with CML that the rendition is merely a glimpse into the raga. Taanam is taken up around the 15th minute in 3 rounds. Taanam is something of a TNS specialty and on his day, he can take it to great heights. This is an enjoyable taanam but not quite his forceful best. CML has provided a detailed explanation which I am unable to add to. Thankfully I saw Sriram's post before referring to my notes on the Pallavi! I have written, Chatushra Rupaka! After bowling this ignominous no-ball, I have no choice but to make my laya observations, a truncated baby over! Anyway with all the laya puligal having woken up on this board, I am happy to go back to my rightful place of being a student. Given that the duration of a 2-kalai chatushra rupakam and tisra-adi are the same, how does one distinguish between the two? I figured out the Eduppu and Ardhi (on Ra of Lakumikara) and came to the conclusion that it was Rupakam -what should I have observed to correctly identify the taalam? The ragamalika swarams are in Mohanam, Suddha Saveri, Kalyani, Khamas, Bilahari and Sree, which features a small sawaal-jawaab between the mrudangist and the violinist. Trikalam follows the koraippu and korvai (which I have no clue about and which Sriram has ably described anyway). 22.30 (1st speed – 1 round), 22.48 (2nd speed 2 rounds) and 23.08 (3rd speed – 4 rounds) which completes the exercise. The rendition of “amaravinutha” becomes a little dicey (as Vishnu points out) in the 3rd speed since it is one speed higher than the rest of the Pallavi. As regards the koraippu and korvai, I thikn I will need to spend a good 2 hours with Sriram's valuable notes (how can I ever thank him for his patience with my ignorance!) before I can start to make sense of it. As for the korvai at 21.37, there seems to be some interruptions (or are they false starts?). I have a doubt here although Sriram has explained very beautifully. The switch from tisram to chatusram and back to tishram makes a lot of sense now that you have explained it although I was having BIG TROUBLE keeping pace with the time while I was hearing it. I will listen to it again before posting again but my count for the korvai seems to be slightly differing from yours...taking the final round as an example, it goes: S,R,SDPDS, (10) R,SDPDS, (8) SDPDS,, (7) SRSDP (5) SDPMG (5) MGRSR (5) This adds up to the 40 that is required to reach eduppu, as you have pointed out. If we take the first one as 12, it adds upto 42..maybe it should be 10 and not 12 or am I making some mistake? If it is as above, is it acceptable? it seems to suggest a patern of fives...On a different note, it would be more educative if you could provide somoe rules for korvais. Anyway, a highly enjoyable Pallavi clearly demonstrating TNS' supreme abilities in all departments! CML thanks for the choice. Vijay ajsriram Ip Address 203.101.45.4 Posted on 28/11/05 04:21:03 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Mistake is a Mistake Is a mistake is a Mistake.. Its 10 and not 12.. Corrections: Tha. Thee. Thakathina Thaam (thaam is 2 karvai) Comes to 10 Thee. Thakathina Thaam (thaam is 2 karvai) comes to 8 Thakathina Thangu (thangu is 3 Karvai) comes to 7 Thathikitathom Thathikitathom Thathikitathom Comes to 15 So 10 + 8 + 7 = 35 + 15 = 40 If you see the First part of korvai (poorvangam), You are giving two karvais for the first two phrases and 3 karvais for the third one. Though the maths is correct, the Laskshanam is gone for a toss. P.s: I counted 12 instead of 10, since, i was practising the same korvai with Roopaka Talam and thus the mistake. But all the calculations (final ones) are correct ie. 25+15 =40. regards Sriram J. Iyer ajsriram Ip Address 203.101.45.4 Posted on 28/11/05 04:27:47 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree that Its a Mistake day for me :-) 10 + 8 + 7 = 25 + 15 = 40 and not 10 + 8 + 7 = 35 + 15 = 40 ;-) Sorry regards Sriram J. Iyer vijay Ip Address 10.31.106.6 Posted on 28/11/05 06:24:26 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sriram, thanks for clarifying. I also agree with you that the korvai is somewhat lacking in elegance even though I lack your professional insights. Initially, I was having trouble getting to the eduppu - only then did I realize that there had to be an extra karvai after the third phrase. Vijay cmlover Ip Address 70.25.215.223 Posted on 28/11/05 09:27:11 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Suddenly this has become a graduate course. From 101 we are bumped to 201. What a time for me to have lost my trusted computer! It is going to take time for me to analyze and absorb the erudite comments of the profs. THANKS. I too fell into the trap of chatusra rUpakam and never considered the alternative thisra Adi. I was supremely confident since I had slyly glanced at my abhyaasa gaanam to know that lambodhara is listed as rUpaka thaaLam. Sorry profs! was'nt trying to cheat. Also I got the eduppu right (thanks to the earlier lessons from vijay!) I also got all the ragas right (I am proud of myself; my raga g~naana is far superior to my laya g~naana). I failed to detect saaveri anywhere, but I think I heard gowlai especially the characteristic PMGMR which of course strengthens the taanam. here I also disagree with vishnu that TNS had not used the alpa prayogam as also the distint use of ekashruti rishabham does land him in gowlai (am I right?). Now i have a lot to learn and check from the notes I got to understand laya better and of course more queries. I hope those of you who are learners in laya please join me so that this really becomes a wonderful educational experience. TNS is indeed a treat for the ears as well the mind! Thanks again folks for sharing your expertise! vijay Ip Address 10.31.106.6 Posted on 29/11/05 00:02:22 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Whew...CML, thanks for bringing us back to the comfort zone of raga! Regarding Gowla, I do not recollect hearing anything that reminded me of that raga. In saying this, it must be clarified that it is almost impossible to sing Malahari without using phrases that the raga shares with others. My test would be to determine how those phrases are actually rendered. PMGMR and RGMR would certainly tend to suggest Gowla and, indeed, not not fall within the definition of Malahari. Let me consult my notes on the alaapana (unfortunately I have not made any on the taanam that CML refers to) Regarding the Gandharam, there does seem to be a fairly liberal usage but it always on the descent except for SRGRS which is actually not an exception since the descending phrase could be construed as starting from G. Besides this phrase has been clearly estabslished by Purnadaradasa himself It is interesting to note the usage of Gandharam. They are hardly rests on it and there are very few janda prayogas in a rendition that is otherwise full of them. The charatacteristic prayogas featuring gandharam are: MGRS, MGRSRMP, SRGRS, SRM-GR, RMGRS, MGGRS (very rare) None of the above suggests gowlai and Nisahdam is of course totally absent. Specifically I could not detect PMGMR, RGMR etc. which are the phrases that really distinguish that raga. However I have not paid detailed attention to the taanam which is what CML bases his observations on. Also the Rishabham of Malahari seems to be much sharper than the Rishabham of Gowlai and that reduces the scope for confusion (same for the Dhaivatham vis-a-vis that of Saveri). Overrall, a few phrases of gowlai may have slipped past my attention but there is none I observed that was very strongly reminiscent of that raga. When one is elaborating a rare raga, this is perhaps excusable. Vijay vasanthakokilam Ip Address 67.167.117.2 Posted on 29/11/05 00:39:06 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Also the Rishabham of Malahari seems to be much sharper than the Rishabham of Gowlai and >that reduces the scope for confusion (same for the Dhaivatham vis-a-vis that of Saveri). Excellent!! Is this where a couple of the 22 sruthis come into picture to make those same swarasthanas a bit flatter than the usual for Gowlai and Saveri?. vijay Ip Address 10.31.106.6 Posted on 29/11/05 01:10:04 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- VK, The concept of sruthis is a dicey one that has felled many a vidwan! Some claim that the human ear is capable of distinguishing microtones. Others say that it can only be recognized in the context of a musical phrase. My own example of the Rishabham in Malahari is just a perception - could well be incorrect...but yes, the concept is based on srutis although whether there are 22 distinct srutis is a questionable one. We had some raging debates on that subject sometime back with some fairly informed participation from guys who had done some serious research on it, who since seem to have disappeared! Check out the webpage of Arvindh: http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/~arvindh/cmt/icmpapers.html Vijay